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anderson, all of our people will be back, right? >> nice glasses. >> nice glasses. >> where did you get those? >> i'm copying you. >> like those? >> nice glasses. >> yeah. >> all right. an encore presentation. get ready, because it's true, an encore presentation of tonight's debate. >> it's true. >> know when it will to begin? >> i'm guessing five seconds from now. >> right now. go. >> good evening and welcome to the first and only vice [ female announcer ] beef, meet flavor boost. presidential debate of 2012, sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. i'm martha raddatz of abc news and i am honored to moderate this debate between two men who have dedicated much of their lives to public service. tonight's debate is divided between domestic and foreign policy. i'm gointo move back and forth between foreign and domestic since that is what a president or vice president would have to do. we will have nine different segments. at the beginning of each
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segment, i will ask both candidates a question and they will each have two minutes to answer. then i will encourage a discussion between the candidates with followup questions. by coin toss, it's been determined that vice president biden will be first to answer the opening question. we have a wonderful audience here at center college tonight. you will no doubt hear their enthusiasm at the end of the debate. and right now, as we welcome vice president biden and congressman paul ryan. [ applause ] flavor boost, meet beef. it's swanson flavor boost. concentrated broth to add delicious flavor to your skillet dish in just one stir. mmm! [ female announcer ] cook, meet compliments. get recipes at >> very nice to see you. >> how are you doing? >> okay, you got your little wave to the families in. that's great. good evening, gentlemen. it is an honor to be here with
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both of you. i would like to begin with libya. on a rather somber note, one month ago tonight, on the anniversary of 9/11, ambassador chris stevens and three other brave americans were killed in a terrorist attack in benghazi. the state department has made clear there were no protesters there. it was a preplanned assault by heavily armed men. wasn't this a massive intelligence failure, vice president biden? >> what it was is a tragedy, martha. yis stevens was one of our best. we lost three other brave americans. i can make absolutely two commitments to you and all the american people tonight. one, we will find and bring to justice the men who did this. and secondly, we will get to the bottom of it and wherever the facts lead us, wherever they lead us, we will make clear to the american public, because whatever mistakes were made, will not be made again. when you're looking at a president, martha, it seems to me that you should take a look >> okay. let's move on to afghanistan. i'd like to move on to afghanistan, please. that's one of the biggest expenditures this country has made in dollars and more importantly in lives. we just passed the sad milestone of losing 2,000 u.s. troops in this war. more than 50 were killed this year by the very afghan forces
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at his most important responsibility. that's caring for the national security of the country. the best way to do that is to take a look at how he's handled the issues. on iraq, the president said he would end the war. governor romney said that was a mistake. that he ended it. governor romney said that was a tragic mistake. said we should have left 20,000 troops there. with regard to afghanistan, he said he will end the war in we are trying to help. we've reached the recruiting goal for afghan forces, we've degraded al qaeda. why not leave now? what more can we really accomplish? is it worth more american lives? >> we don't want to lose the gains we've gotten. we want to make sure the taliban doesn't come back in, give al qaeda a safe haven. we agree with the 2014 transition. when i think of afghanistan, i think of the incredible job that our troops have done. 2014. governor romney said we should not set a date. with regard to 2014, he said it depends. when it came to osama bin laden, the president, the first day in office, i was sitting with him in the oval office. he called in the cia and signed an order saying my highest priority is to get bin laden. prior to the election, prior to him being sworn in, governor romney asked how he would proceed. he said i wouldn't move heaven and earth to get bin laden. he didn't understand it was more than about taking a murderer off you've been there more than the two of us combined. first time i was there in 2002, it was amazing to me what they were facing. i went to kandahar before the surge, sat down with a young private from the 82nd, who would tell me what he did every day, and i was in awe and to see what they had in front of them and to go back in december to see what they accomplished? it's nothing short of amazing. what we don't want to do is lose the gains we've gotten.
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the battlefield. it was about restoring america's heart and letting terrorists around the world know if you do harm to america, we will track you to the gates of hell if need be. lastly, the president of the united states s led with a steady hand and clear vision. governor romney, the opposite. the last thing we need now is another war. >> congressman ryan? >> we mourn the loss of these four americans who were murdered. we've disagreed from time to time. we would more likely to take into account, recommendations from our commanders on troop levels throughout this year's fighting season. we've been skeptical about negotiations with the taliban. especially while they are shooting at us. but we want to see the 2014 transition be successful and that means we want to make sure our commanders have what they need to make sure it is when you take a look at what's happened in the last few weeks, they sent the u.n. ambassador out to say that this was because of a protest and a youtube video. it took the president two weeks to acknowledge that this was a terrorist attack. he went to the u.n. and in his speech at the u.n. he said six times, he talked about the youtube video. look, if we're hit by terrorists, we're going to call it for what it is, a terrorist attack. our ambassador in paris has a marine detachment guarding him. successful so that this doesn't once again become a launching pad for terrorists. >> let's keep our eye on the ball. i've been in afghanistan and iraq 20 times. i have been throughout that country, mostly in a helicopter, sometimes in a vehicle. we went there for one reason. to get those people who killed americans, al qaeda. we decimated al qaeda central, eliminated osama bin laden, that was our purpose.
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shouldn't we have a marine detachment guarding our ambassador in benghazi, a place we knew there was an al qaeda cell with arms? this is becoming more troubling by the day. they first blamed the youtube video. now they're trying to blame the romney-ryan ticket for make -- making this an issue. with respect to iraq, we had the same position before the withdrawal, which was we agreed with the obama administration. and in the meantime, we said we would help train the afghan military. it's their responsibility to take over their own security. that's why with 49 of our allies in afghanistan, we've agreed on a gradual drawdown so we're out of there by the year 20 -- end of the year 2014. my friend and the governor say it's based on conditions. let's secure our gains. the vice president was put in charge of the negotiations by president obama and they failed to get the agreement. we don't have a status of forces agreement because they failed to get one. that's what we were talking about. when it comes to the veterans, we owe them a great debt of gratitude, for what they've done for us, including your son, bo. >> thank you. >> but we also want to make sure we don't lose the things we fought so hard to get. and we agreed with the 2014 it means it depends. it does not depend for us. it is the responsibility of the afghans to take care of their own security. we have trained over 315,000, mostly without incident. there have been more than two dozen cases of green on blue where americans have been killed. if we do -- if the measures, the military has taken, do not take hold, we will not go on joint patrols, we will not train in the field, we'll only train in
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transition in afghanistan. but what we also want to do is make sure we're not projecting weakness abroad. that's what's happening here. this benghazi issue would be a tragedy in and of itself. but unfortunately, it's indicative of a broader problem, and that is what we're watching on our tv screens is the unraveling of the obama foreign policy, which is making things more chaotic and us less safe. >> i want to talk to you right the army bases that exist there. but we are leaving. we are leaving in 2014, period. in the process, we'll be saving over the next ten years, another $800 billion. we've been in the war for over a decade. primary objective is almost completed, now all we're doing is putting the kabul government in a position to be able to maintain their own security. in the middle of the crisis, governor romney, and you're talking about this again tonight, talked about the weakness, talked about apologies from the obama administration. was that appropriate right in the middle of the crisis? >> on that same day, the obama administration had the exact same position. let's recall, they disavowed their own statement they put out early in the day in cairo. so we had the same position. it's never too early to speak out for our values. we should have spoken out right away when the green revolution it's their responsibility, not america's. >> what conditions could justify staying, congressman ryan? >> we don't want to stay. one of my best friends in janesville, a reservist is at a forward operating base in afghanistan right now. our wives are best friends, our daughters are best friends. i want him and all of our troops to come home as soon and safely as possible. we want to make sure the 2014 is successful.
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was up and starting, when the mullas in iran were attacking their people. we should not have called assad a reformer when he was turning guns on his own people. we should always stand up for peace, democracy and individual rights and not be imposing these devastating defense cuts. because what that does, when we equivocate on our values, when we -- when we look weak, our that's why we want to make sure we give our commanders what they say they need to make it successful. we don't want to extend beyond 2014. that's the point we're making. if it was just this, i would feel like we would be able to call this a success. but it's not. what we are witnessing is the absolute unraveling of the obama foreign policy. problems are growing at home -- problems are growing abroad, but adversaries are more willing to test us. and our allies are -- >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> why is that so? >> nothing he said is accurate. >> be specific. >> i will be very specific. number one, this lecture on embassy security. the congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for. number one. so much for the embassy security piece. number two, governor romney, before he knew the facts, before jobs aren't growing here at home. >> let's go back to this. he says we're absolutely leaving in 2014. you're saying that's not an absolute, but you won't talk about what conditions would justify it. >> you know why we say that? you know why we say that? we don't want to broadcast our enemies, put a date on our calendar, wait us out and then come back. >> you agree with the timeline? >> we do agree with the same timeline and the transition, what -- what any administration will do in 2013, assess the
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he knew that our ambassador was killed, he was out making a political statement, which was panned by the media around the world. and this talk about this weakness. i don't understand what my friend is talking about here. this is a president who has gone out and done everything he had said he was going to do. this is a guy who repaired our alliances so the rest of the world follows us again. this is a guy who brought the entire world, including russia and china to bring about the situation to see how best to complete the timeline. >> we will leave in 2014. >> what we don't want to do is give our allies reason to trust us less and our enemies more -- we don't want to embolden and -- our enemies to hold and wait out for us and then take over. >> that's a bizarre statement. 49 allies. hear me. 49 of our allies signed on to this position. most devastating, most devastating efforts on iran to make sure that they in fact stop -- look, i just -- i mean, these guys bet against america all the time. >> let me go back to libya. what were you first told about the attack? why were people talking about protests? when people in the consulate first saw armed men attacking with guns, there were no protesters. >> and we're reading that they -- >> 49. 49 of our allies said out in 2014. it's the responsibility of the afghans. we have other responsibilities. >> do you think this time line -- but we have soldiers and marines, we have afghan forces murdering our forces over there. the taliban, do you think is taking advantage of this timeline? >> the taliban, what we've found out and you saw it in iraq,
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why did that go -- -- go on for weeks? >> because that's exactly what we were told by the intelligence community. the intelligence community told us that, as they learned more facts about exactly what happened, they changed their assessment. that's why there's also an investigation headed by a leading diplomat from the rig reagan years who is doing an investigation, as to whether or not there were any lapses, what the lapses were, so they will martha, unless you set a timeline, baghdad, in the case of iraq and kabul in the case of afghanistan, will not step up. they are happy for to us do the job, international security forces to do the job. the only way they step up is say, fellows, we're leaving. we've trained you, step up, step up. that's the only way it works. >> let me go back to the surge troops that we put in there, and never happen again. >> they wanted more security there. >> we weren't told that. we did not know they wanted more security. and by the way, at the time, we were told exactly -- we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. that was the assessment. as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it clear they changed their view. that's why i said we will get to the bottom of this. usually when there's a crisis, we pull together. we pull together as a nation. but as i said, even before we knew what happened to the ambassador, the governor was holding a press conference. that's not presidential you brought this up, congressman ryan. i've talked to a lot of troops, to senior officers who were concerned that the surge troops were pulled out during the fighting season and some of them saw that as a political move. can you tell me what was the military reason for bringing those surge troops home before the fighting ended? >> the military reason -- by the way, the president announced the surge, you'll remember, martha, he said that the surge will be out by the end of the summer.
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leadership. capella university understands businesses are trying to come the military said the surge will be out. nothing political about this. before the surge occurred, so you be straight with me here too. before the surge occurred, we said that they will be out by the end of the summer. that's what the military said. the reason for that is -- >> military follows orders. trust me. there are people who are concerned about pulling out. >> there are people who are concerned. not the chiefs. it was their recommendation in the oval office to the president of the united states of america. i sat there. i'm sure you'll find someone who disagrees with the pentagon. i'm positive you will find that within the military. but that's not the case here. the reason why the military said that, you cannot wait and have a cliff. it takes uno months and months and months to draw down forces. you cannot wait. >> let me try and illustrate the issue here, because i think this
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back from rough economic times. employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever. when you see these problems do you take a step back, or do you want to dive right in? with a degree in business from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to go further in your career than you ever thought possible. let's get started at can get a little confusing. we've all met with general allen and general scaparotti to talk about fighting seasons. here is how it works. mountain passes fill with snow, and the taliban and al qaeda come over from pakistan to fight our men and women. when it fills with snow, they can't do it. in the warm months, fighting gets high, in the winter it goes down, so when admiral mullen and general petraeus came to congress and said, if you pull these people out before the fighting season ends, it puts people more at risk. that's the problem. yes, we drew 22,000 troops down last month, but the remaining troops who are there, who still have the same mission to prosecute, counterinsurgency are doing it with fewer people. that makes them less safe. we're sending fewer people out in all these hotspots to do the same job they were to do a month ago. >> because we turned over to the
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not quite knowing what the next phase was going to be, you know, because you been, you know, this is what you had beedoing. you know, working, working, working, working, working, working. and now you're talking about, well you know, i won't be, afghan troops we trained. no one got pulled out that didn't get filled in by trained afghan personnel. and he's conflating these two issues. the fighting season petraeus was talking about and admiral mullen was the fighting season this spring. that's what he was talking about. we did not pull them out. >> the calendar works the same every year. and i get the chance to spend more time with my wife and my kids. it's my world. that's my world. ♪ and i was told to call my next of kin. at 33 years old, i was having a heart attack. now i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i didn't know this could happen so young. take control, talk to your doctor. >> it does work the same every year. >> spring, summer, fall, it's warm or it's not. they are still fighting us, coming over the passes. they are still coming in to zabul,unar, all these areas but we are sending fewer people tohe front to fight them. >> that's right because that's the afghan responsibility. we've trained them. >> not in the east. >> not in the east? >> the east is the most dangerous place in the world.
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>> mr. ryan, i want to ask you about, the romney campaign talks a lot about no apologies. he has a book called "no apologies." should the u.s. have apologized for americans burning korans in afghanistan? should the u.s. apologize for u.s. marines urinating on taliban corpses? >> oh, gosh yes. urinating on taliban corpses. you would rather americans go in to do the job. >> no, we're sending americans to do the job, fewer of them. that's the whole point. >> we're sending in more afghans to do the job. afghans to do the job. ♪ what we should not apologize for -- >> burning korans? >> what we should not apologizing for is standing up for our values or saying to the egyptian people that mubarak is cracking down on them and he's a good guy and then the next week, say he ought to go. we should not reject claims for calls for more security. we need marines in benghazi when the commander on the ground says we need more forces for security. there were requests for extra ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] at&t. the nation's largest 4g network. now covering 3000 more 4g cities and towns than verizon. at&t. rethink possible.
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security. those requests were not honored. look, this was the anniversary of 9/11. it was libya. a country we knew we had al qaeda cells there, as we know al qaeda and its affiliates are on the rise in northern africa. and we did not give our ambassador in benghazi a marine detachment? of course there's an investigation so we can make sure this never happens again. but when it comes to speaking up for our values, we should not apologize for those. here's the problem. these are sandra's "homemade" yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one. look at all the various issues out there, and it's unraveling before our eyes. the vice president talking about sanctions on iran. >> let's move to iran. i would like to move to iran. there's really no bigger national security this country is facing. president obama and governor romney said they will prevent iran from getting a nuclear weapon, even if that means military action. last week, bob gates said a strike on iran's facilities would not work and "could prove i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. have led to an increase intands clinical depression. drug and alcohol abuse is up. and those dealing with grief don't have access to the professional help they need. when you see these issues, do you want to walk away or step up? with a degree in the field of counseling or psychology from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to make a difference in the lives of others. let's get started at if we want to improve our schools...
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catastrophic, haunting us for generations." can the two of you be absolutely clear and specific to the american people how effective would a military strike be? congressman ryan? >> we cannot allow iran to gain a nuclear weapon capability. let's take a look at where we've come from. when barack obama was elected, they had enough nuclear material to make one bomb. now they have enough for five. ...what should we invest in? maybe new buildings? what about updated equipment? they can help, but recent research shows... ...nothing transforms schools like investing in advanced teacher education. let's build a strong foundation. let's invest in our teachers so they can inspire our students. let's solve this. that i racing toward a nuclear weapon. they're four years closer toward nuclear weapons capability. we've had four different sanctions from the u.n., three from t bush administration and one here. the only reason we got it is because roush watered it down and prevented the sanctions from hitting the central bank. mitt romney proposed these sanctions in 2007. i proposed them in 2009. the administration was blocking us every step of the way.
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we had strong bipartisan support and we were able to overrule their objections and put them in despite the administration. imagine what would have happened if we had the sanctions in place earlier? do you think iran is not brazen? look at what they're doing. they tried a terrorist attack in the united states last year when they tried to blow up the saudi ambassador at a restaurant in washington, d.c. talk about credibility. when this administration says that all options are on the table, they send out senior administration officials that send all these mixed signals. >> let's move to another war, the civil war in syria, where there are estimates that more than 25,000, 30,000 people have now been killed. in march of last year, preside obama explained the military action taken in libya by saying it was in the national interest to go in and prevent further massacres from occurring there. why doesn't the same logic apply in syria? in order to solve this peacefully, which is everybody's goal, you have to have the ayatollahs change their minds. look at where they are. they're moving faster toward a nuclear weapon. it's because this administration has no credibility on this issue. it's because they watered down the sanctions. now we have sanctions in place because of congress. they say the military options are on the table, but it's not being viewed as credible. the key is to make sure we have credibility. under a romney administration, >> it's a different country. it's a different cntry. it is five times as large geographically. it has one fifth the population that is libya. one fifth the population, five times as large geographically. it's in a part of the world where you're not going to see whatever would come from that war, seep into a regional war. you are in a country that is heavily populated, in the most dangerous area in the world. and if, in fact, it blows up,
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we will have credibility on this issue. >> vice president biden? >> incredible. look, imagine had we let republican congress work out the sanctions. do you think there's any possibility the entire world would have joined us? russia and china? all of our allies? these are the most crippling sanctions in the history of sanctions, period, period. when governor romney is asked about it, he said we've got to keep these sanctions. the wrong people gain control it will have impact on the entire region, causing potentially regional wars. we're working hand in glove with the turks, jordanians, saudis, with all of the people in the region, attempting to identify the people who deserve the help so when assad goes and he will go. there will be a legitimate government that follows on. not an al qaeda sponsored government that follows on. when you say, when you talk about more, are you going to go to war? is that what you want to do now? >> we want to prevent war. >> how are they going to prevent war? they say there's nothing more we should do than what we've already done. number two, with regard to the ability of the united states to take action militarily, it's not in my purview to talk about classified information, but we and all this loose talk of my friend, governor romney and the congressman, about how we are going to do -- we could do so much more. what more would they do, other than put american boots on the ground? the last thing america needs is to get in another ground war in the middle east. requiring tens of thousands, if not well over 100,000 american forces. that -- they are the facts. they are the facts. every time the governor is asked about this, he doesn't say
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feel quite confident we could deal a serious blow to the iranians. number two, the iranians are -- the israelis and the united states and the military intelligenceommunities are the same exact place in terms of how close, how close the iranians are to getting a nuclear weapon. they are a good way away. there is no difference between our view and theirs. when my friend talks about nuclear material, they have to take this highly enriched uranium, get it from 20% up and then have something to put it anything. he goes up with a whole lot of verbiage, but he says he would not do anything different than we are doing now. are they proposing putting american troops on the ground, american planes in the air space? if they do, then they should speak up and say so. that's not what they are saying. we're doing it exactly like we need to do to identify those forces who will provide for a in. there is no weapon that the iranians have at this point. the israelis and we know, we'll know if they start the process of building a weapon. so all this bluster i keep hearing, all this loose talk, what are they talking about? are you talking about to be more credible -- what more can the president do? stand before the united nations, stable government and not cause a regional sunni/shia war. when assad falls. >> no one is proposing to send american troops to syria. let me say it this way. how would we do things differently? we wouldn't refer to bashar assad as a reformer when he is killing his own civilians with russian supplied weapons.
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tell the whole world, directly, communicate to the ayatollah, we will not let them acquire a nuclear weapon. period. unless he's talking about going to war. >> martha, let's just look at this from the view of the ayatollahs. what do they see? they see this administration trying to water down sanctions in congress for over two years. they're moving faster toward a nuclear weapon. they're spinning the centrifuges faster. they see us coming into the administration, when they're sworn in, we need more space with our ally, israel. wi wouldn't be outsourcing our foreign policy to the united nations giving vladimir putin veto power over our efforts to deal with this issue. he's vetoed three of them. hillary clinton went to russia to convince him not to do so. they thwarted our efforts and this is one example of how the russia reset is not working. where are we? after international pressure, then president obama said bashar assad should go. it's been over a year. they see president obama in new york city, the same day the prime minister of israel is here, instead of meeting with him, goes on a talk show. they see, when we say the options are on the table, the secretary of defense walk them back. they are not changing their mind. that's what we have to do is change their minds so they stop pursuing nuclear weapons. >> look, you both saw benjamin netanyahu hold up with picture of a bomb with a red line and talking about the red line be in he has slaughtered tens of thousands of his own people, and more foreign fighters are spilling into this country. so the longer this has gone on, the more people -- groups like al qaeda are going in. we could have more easily identified a free syrian army, freedom fighters, working with allies, turks, saudis. had we had a better plan in place to begin with, working through our allies.
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spring. can you solve this, if the romney-ryan ticket is elected, can you solve this in two months before spring and avoid nuclear iran? >> we can debate the timeline, whether it's that short of time or longer. i agree that it's probably longer. number two, it's -- >> you don't agree with that bomb and what the israeli -- [ all speak at once ] >> i don't want to go into classified stuff, but we both agree that to do this we waited for kofi an an to come up with an agreement with the u.n. and that bought bashar assad time. we gave them veto power and 30,000 syrians are dead. >> what would my friend do differently? you notice, he never answers the question. >> we wouldn't be go through all of the u.n. and all of these things. >> we don't go through the u.n. we are in the process now and have been for months in making sure that help, humanitarian peacefully, you have to get them to change their minds. they're not changing their minds and look at what this administration does -- >> let me tell you what the ayatollahs sees. the yeet sees his economy being crippled. the ayatollah sees there are 50% fewer exports of oil. he sees the currency going into the tank. he sees the economy going into a freefall. and he sees the world for the first time totally united in opposition to him getting a nuclear weapon. aid, as well as other aid and trning is getting to those forces that we believe the turks believe, the jordanians believe, the saudis believe, are the free forces inside of syria. that's under way. allies all on the same page. nato as well as our arab allies. in terms of trying to get a settlement. that was their idea. we were the ones that said enough.
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with regard to netanyahu, he's been my friend for 39 years. the president has met with him a dozen times and spoken to him as much as he's spoken to nibble. -- to anybody. i was -- just before he went to the u.n., i was in a conference call with the president, with him to -- talking to be be for well over an hour. in stark relief and detail about what was going on. this is a bunch of stuff. look, here's the deal -- >> what does that mean, a bunch of stuff? >> it's simply inaccurate. >> it's irish. >> we irish call it malarkey. with regard to the reset not working, the fact of the matter is that russia has a different interest in syria than we do, and that's not in our interest. >> what happens if assad does not fall? congressman ryan? what happens to the region? what happens if he hangs on? >> then iran keeps their greatest ally in the region. a sponsor of terrorism. he will probably continue slaughtering his people. we and the world community will lose our credibility on this. he mentioned the reset. >> thanks for the translation. >> but last thing, the secretary of defense has made it clear, we didn't walk anything back. we will not allow the iranians to get a nuclear weapon. what bebe held up there, when they get to the point where they can enrich uranium enough to put into a weapon, they don't have a weapon to put it into. let's call calm down a little >> what would romney/ryan do? >> we agree with the same redline that they do on chemical weapons, but not putting american troops in, other than to secure chemical weapons. they are right about that. what we should have done earlier is work with those freedom fighters. those dissidents in syria. we should not have called bashar assad a reformer and we should not -- >> what's your criteria -- >> we should not have waited for
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bit here. iran is more isolated today than when we took office. it was on the ascendancy when we took office. it is totally isolated. >> thank heavens we have these sanctions in place. it's in spite of their opposition. they have given 20 waivers to this sanction. all i have to point to are the results. they're four years closer to a nuclear weapon. i think that case speaks for itself. >> by the way, who is worse, another war in the middle east -- >> they're closer to being able to get enough nuclear term to russia to give us the green light. they are still arming the man. iran is sending flights over iraq to help bashar assad. >> and the opposition is being armed. >> and wi-of-by the way, if we had the status of forces agreement that the vice president said he would bet his vice presidency on in iraq, we would probably have achieved that. >> what is your criteria for intervention? >> in syria? -- nuclear material to put in a weapon if they had a weapon. >> you're acting like they don't want one. >> i didn't say that. facts matter, martha. you're a foreign policy expert. facts matter. all this loose talk about all they have to do is get to enrich uranium and they have a weapon. not true. not true. they are more -- and if we ever have to take action, unlike when we took office, we'll have the world behind us. and that matters. that matters. >> worldwide. >> what is in the national interests of the american people. the strategic national interests of our country. >> no humanitarian? >> each situation will come up with its own set of circumstances, but putting american troops on the ground, has to be within the national security interest of the american people. >> we're almost out of time. >> that means things like embargoes and sanctions, those are things that don't put american troops on the ground. but if you are talking about putting troops on the ground, only in our national security interest.
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>> what about bob gates' statement? let me read that again. could prove catastrophic, haunting us for generations. >> he's right. it could prove catastrophic. >> congressman ryan? >> it undermines our credibility by backing up the point when we make it, that all options are on the table. that's the point. the ayatollahs see these statements and think, i'm going to get a nuclear weapon. [ man ] in hong kong, on my way to the board meeting... anne's tablet called my phone. anne's tablet was chatting with a tablet in sydney... a desktop in zurich... and a telepresence room in brazil. the secure cloud helped us get some numbers from my assistant's pc in new york. and before i reached the top, when we see the kind of equivocation that took place, because this administration wanted a precondition policy, so when the green revolution started up, they were silent for nine days. when they see us putting daylight between ourselves and our allies in israel, that gives them encouragement. when they see russia watering down sanctions, when they see -- the only reason we got the sanctions is because russia watered it down. the board meeting became a congrats we sold the company party. wait til my wife's phone hears about this. [ cellphone vibrating ] [ female announcer ] with cisco at the center, working together has never worked so well. i wish my patients could see what i see. ♪ that over time, having high cholesterol and any of these risk factors can put them at increased risk for plaque buildup in their arteries. so it's even more important
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so when they see this kind of activity, they are encouraged to continue and that's the problem. >> martha -- >> let me ask you what's worse, war in the middle east, another war in the middle east or a nuclear armed iran? >> i'll tell you what's worse. >> quickly. >> a nuclear armed iran which triggers a nuclear arms race in the middle east. this is the world's largest sponsor of terrorism. they're dedicated to wiping off an entire country off the map, they call us the great satan. >> vice president biden? to lower their cholesterol, and that's why, when diet and exercise alone aren't enough, i prescribe crestor. in a clinical trial versus lipitor, crestor got more high-risk patients' bad cholesterol to a goal of under 100. [ female announcer ] crestor is not right for everyone. like people with liver disease or women who are nursing, pregnant or may become pregnant. tell your doctor about other medicines you're taking. call your doctor right away if you have muscle pain or weakness, feel unusually tired, have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. >> we can't live with that. >> war should always be the absolute last resort. that's why these crippling sanctions that netanyahu says we should continue, which if i'm not mistaken, governor rom flee says we should continue. i may be mistaken. he changes his mind so often, i could be wrong. but the fact is, he says they're working. these could be signs of rare but serious side effects. ♪ is your cholesterol at goal? talk to your doctor about crestor. [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, then don't miss sleep train's wbest rest ever? you'll find sleep train's very best mattresses
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britta olsen is my patient. i spend long hours with her checking her heart rate, administering her medication, and just making her comfortable. one night britta told me about a tradition in denmark, "when a person dies," she said, "someone must open the window so the soul can depart." i smiled and squeezed her hand. "not tonight, britta. not tonight." [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, thank you, from johnson & johnson. >> i want to return home for these last few questions. this debate is indeed historic. we have two catholic candidates, first time on a stage such as this. i would like to ask you both what role your religion has played in your own personal views on abortion? please talk about how you came to that decision. talk about how religion played a role. and, please, this is such an emotional issue for so many people in this country. please talk personally about this if you could. congressman ryan? >> i don't see how a person can separate their public life from their private life. or from their faith. my faith informs me how to take care of the vulnerable, how to
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make sure that people have a chance in life. you ask me why i'm pro life? it's not simply because of my catholic faith. that's a factor, of course, but it's also because of reason and science. you know, i think about 10 1/2 years ago, my wife jan and i went to mercy hospital in janesville, where i was born, for our seven-week ultrasound for our first born child. conversation to the state of our economy, the number one issue we saw that heartbeat, our little baby was in the shape of a bean. and to this day, we have nicknamed our first born child, liza, bean. i believe life begins at conception. those are the reasons why i'm pro life. now, i understand this is a difficult issue and i respect people who don't agree with me on this. but the policy of a romney administration will be to oppose
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here at home is jobs. the percentage of unemployed just fell below 8% for the first time in 43 months. the obama administration had projected that it would fall below 6% now after the addition of close to a trillion dollars in stimulus money. will both of you level with the american people, can you get unemployment to under 6% and how long will it take? >> i don't know how long it will take. abortion except in instances of rape, incest, and the life of the mother. what troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. look what they are doing with obama care, with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. they're infringing upon our first freedom oot freedom of religion by infringing on we can and will get it under 6%. let's take a look at the facts. let's look at where we were when we came into office. the economy was in free fall. we had a great recession hit. 9 million people lost their jobs. $1.6 trillion in wealth lost in equity in your homes and retirement accounts for the middle class. we knew we had to act for the middle class and we went out and rescued general motors. we made sure that we cut taxes catholic charities, catholic churchs, catholic hospitals. our church should not have to sue the federal government to maintain their liberties. and abortion, they wanted it to be safe, legal and rare. now they support it without restrictions and with taxpayer funding. taxpayer funding on obama care, taxpayer funding with foreign aid. the vice president himself went to china and said he sympathized or wouldn't second guess their one-child policy of forced abortions and sterilizations. that to me is pretty extreme. >> vice president biden.
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for the middle class, and in addition to that, when that occurred, what did romney do? romney said no, let detroit go bankrupt. we moved in and helped people refinance their homes. governor romney said no, let foreclosures hit the bottom. but it shouldn't be surprising for a guy who says 47% of the american people are unwilling to take responsibility for their >> my religion defines who i am, and i've been a practicing catholic my whole life. and it has particularly informed my social doctrine. catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who can't take care of themselves. people who need help. with regard to abortion, i lives. my friend said 30% are takers. these people are my mom and dad, my neighbors. they pay more tax than governor romney pays. they are elderly people who in fact are living off of social security. there are veterans and people fighting in afghanistan right now who are, quote, not paying any taxes. i've had it up to here with this notion, 47% -- it's about time they take some responsibility here. instead of signing pledges not to ask the wealthiest among us to contribute to bring back the accept my church's position on abortion as what we call a di fete doctrine. life begins at conception. that's what i believe in my personal life. i refuse to oppose it on equally devout christians and muslims and jews and i just refuse to impose that on others. unlike my friend here, the congressman. i -- i do not believe that we have a right to tell other
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middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class, we're going to level the playing field. we're going to give you a fair shot again. we are going to not repeat the mistakes we made in the past by having a different set of rules for wall street and main street. making sure that we continue to hemorrhage these tax cuts for the super wealthy. they're pushing the continuation of a tax cut that will give an additional $500 billion in tax cuts to 120,000 families. and they're holding hostage the middle class tax cut, because people, women, they can't control their body. it's a decision between them and their doctor, in my view, and the supreme court. i'm not going to interfere with that. with regard to the assault on the catholic church, let me make it absolutely clear, no religious institution, catholic or otherwise, including catholic social services, mercy hospital, any hospital, none has to either they say we won't pass, we won't continue the middle class tax cut unless you give it for the super wealthy. it's about time they take responsibility. >> mr. ryan? >> joe and i are from similar towns. we's from scranton, pennsylvania. i'm from janesville, wisconsin. you know what the unemployment rate in scranton is? >> sure do. it's 10%. the day you came into office it was 8.5%. refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception. none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. that is a fact. that is a fact. now with regard to the way in which we differ, my friend says that he -- i guess he accepts governor romney's position. in the past, he has argued that there was rape and forcible
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that's how it's going all around america. >> that's not how it is, it's going down. >> this is his two-minute answer, please. >> did they inherit a tough situation? absolutely. but we're going in the wrong direction. look at where we are. the economy is barely limping along. it's growing at 1.3%. that's slower than last year and last year was slower than the year before. job growth in september was slower than it was in august and august was slower than july. we're heading in the wrong direction. 23 million americans are struggling for work today. rape, and he's argued in the case of rape or incest, it would be a crime to engage in having an abortion. i fundamentally disagree. >> congressman ryan? >> all i'm saying if you believe life begins at conception, that doesn't change the definition of life. that's a principle. the policy of a romney administration is to oppose abortion with exceptions for 15% of americans are living in poverty today. this is not what a real recovery looks like. we need real reforms and that's what we're proposing. >> it's a five-point plan. get america energy independent in north america by the end of the decade. help people that are hurting get the skills to get the job they want. get the deficit under control to rape, incest, life of the mother. now, i've got to take issue with the catholic church and religious liberty. if they agree with you, why would they keep suing you? it's a distinction without a difference. >> i want to go back to the abortion question. if the romney/ryan ticket is elected, should those who worry -- who believe that abortion should remain legal be worried? >> we don't think un-elected judges should make this decision, but people through their elected representatives,
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avoid a debt crisis. make trade work for america so we can make more things in america. and sell them overseas and champion small businesses. don't raise taxes on small businesses because they're the job creators. he talks about detroit. mitt romney is a car guy. they keep misquoting him. but let me tell you about the mitt romney i know. this is a guy two i was talking to a family in massachusetts the other day. cheryl and mark nixon. their kids were hit in a car crash, four of them, two of them, rob and reed, were paralyzed. the romneys didn't know them. in reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process, should make this determination. >> the next president will get one or two supreme court nominees. that's how close roe versus wade is. just ask yourself, with robert bork the chief advisor in the court for mr. romney, who is he likely to appoint? do you think he's likely to appoint someone like scalia or they went the same church, they never met before. mitt asked if he would come over for christmas. he brought his wife and boys and gifts and later said, i know you're struggling, mark. don't worry about their college, i'll pay for it. when mark told me this story, he -- because you know what, mitt romney doesn't tell these stories. he said it wasn't the cash help. it's that he gafe his time and he has consist enltly. this is a man who gave 30% of his income to charity, more than someone else on the court, far right, that would outlaw abortion? i suspect that would happen. i guarantee that won't happen. we picked two people, ownership minded. so keep an eye -- >> was there a litmus test on this? >> we picked people who had an open mind, didn't come with an agenda. designed for men's health concerns as we age.
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the two of us combined. mitt romney cares about 100% of americans in this country. with respect to that quote, i think the vice president knows that words sometimes don't come out of your mouth the right way. [ laughter ] >> but i always say what i mean. and so does romney. >> we want everybody to succeed. we want to get people out of poverty. in the middle class and into it has more of 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. self-sufficien self-sufficiency. we believe in opportunity. that's what we're going to push for in a romney administration. >> vice president? i have a feeling you have a few things to say here. >> the idea, if you heard that little sill quee on the 47%, if you think that, then i've got a bridge to sell you. i don't doubt his personal generosity. i understand what it's like. when i was a little younger than the congressman, my wife was in an accident, killed my daughter to support cell health. energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy development comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing generations of cleaner-burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self-contained well systems. and, using state-of-the-art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations
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and my wife and my two sons survived. i've sat in the homes of many people that have gone through what i have gone through. because the one thing you can give me solace is to know they know that you've been through it, that they can make it. so i don't doubt his personal commitment to individuals. but you know what? i know he had no commitment to the automobile industry. he said let it go bankrupt, period. let it drop out. all this talk, we saved a million jobs. 200,000 people are working are safe and clean for our communities and the environment. we're america's natural gas. by the armful? by the barrelful? the carful? how the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. today. and i've never met two guys more down on america across the board. we're told everything is going badly. 5.2 million new jobs, private sector jobs. we need more. but 5.2 million. if they would get out of the way and let us pass the tax cut for the middle class and make it permanent. if they get out of the way and pass the jobs bill, if they get out of the way and let us allow 14 million people who are
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struggling to stay in their homes because their mortgages are upside down, just get out of the way. stop talking about how you care about people. show me something. show me a policy. show me a policy where you take responsibility. and by the way, they talk about this great recession as if it fell out of the sky, like oh, my goodness, where it did come from? it came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card at the same time, put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy. i was there. i voted against them. i said no, we can't afford that. now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with the concern about the debt that they created -- >> congressman ryan? >> let's not forget that they came in with one-party control. when barack obama was elected, his party controlled everything. they had the ability to do everything of their choosing and look at where we are right now. they passed the stimulus. the idea that we could borrow $831 billion, spend it on these
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special interest groups and it would work out just fine. that unemployment would never get to 8%. it went up above 8% for 43 months. they said right now if we just pass this stimulus, the economy would grow at 4%. it's growing at 1.3. >> when could you get it below 6%? >> that's the entire premise of our plan. getting the economy growing at 4%. creating 12 million jobs in four years. >> i'm going to move on to the closing question. we're running out of time. certainly known and you've said it here tonight that the two of you respect our troops enormously. your son has served, and perhaps some day your children will serve as well. i recently spoke to a highly decorated soldier who says this presidential campaign has left him dismayed, he told me "the ads are so negative and all tearing down each other, rather look at the $90 billion in stimulus. the vice president was in charge of overseeing this. $90 billion in green pork to campaign contribute fors and -- contributors and special interest groups. just at the department of energy, there are over 100 criminal investigations that have been launched -- >> martha, look, his colleague runs an investigative committee, spent months and months going -- >> this is the inspector general. >> months and months. they found no evidence of cronyism. than building up the country. what would you say to that american hero about this campaign? and at the end of the day, are you ever embarrassed by the tone? vice president biden. >> i would say to him, the same thing i say to my son who did serve a year in iraq. we only have one truly sacred obligation as a government. and that's to equip those we send into harm's way and care for those who come home.
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and i love my friend here. i am not allowed to show letters, but go to our website. he sent me two letters saying, by the way, can you send me some stimulus money for companies here in the state of wisconsin? we sent millions of dollars. >> you did ask for stimulus money, correct? >> on two occasions, we advocated for constituents applying for grants. that's what we do. >> i love that. i love that. this is such a bad program and he writes me a letter staying, -- saying the reason we need that's the only sacred obligation we have. everything else falls behind that. i would also tell him that the fact that he, this decorated soldier you talked about, fought for his country, that that should be honored. he shouldn't be thrown into a category of 47% who don't pay their taxes while he was out there fighting, not having to pay taxes and not taking responsibility. this stimulus, it will create growth and jobs. his words. and now he's sitting here looking at me, and by the way, that program, again, investigated. what the congress said was, it was a model. less than 0.4% waste or fraud in the program. all this talk about cronyism. they investigated and did not find any evidence. i wish he would be a little more candid. >> was it a good idea to spend taxpayer dollars on cars in i would also tell him that things that occurred in this campaign, every campaign, that i'm sure both of us regret. anyone having said, particularly in these special new groups that can go out there, raise all the money they want, not have to identify themselves and say the most skur louse things about the other candidate. it's an abomination.
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finland or windmills in china? was it a good idea to borrow this money from china and spend it on these interest groups? >> it was a good idea to stop us from going off the cliff and set the conditions to grow again. we have in fact 4% of those green jobs didn't go under. it's a better batting average than investment bankers had. but the bottom line here, i would ask that hero you referenced to take a look at whether or not governor romney or president obama has the conviction to help lift up the middle class, restore them to where they were before this great recession hit and they got wiped out or whether or not he's going to continue to focus on taking care of the very wealthy, not asking them to pay any part they have about a 40% loss. >> where are the 5 million green jobs -- >> i want to move on here to medicare and entitlements. i think weave gone over this quite enough. >> by the way, any letter you send me, i'll entertain. >> i appreciate that, joe. up your game. up the ante. and if you stumble, you get back up. up isn't easy, and we ought to know. we're in the business of up. everyday delta flies a quarter of million people while investing billions improving everything from booking to baggage claim. to bring back the middle class of this country. i would ask him to take a look at whether the president of the united states has acted wisely in the use of force and whether or not this slipshod comments being made by governor romney serve our interests very well. there are things said in campaigns that i find not very appealing. >> congressman ryan. >> first of all, i would thank him for his service to our country. secondly, i would say we won't impose these cuts that will be
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we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we will up it yet again. when you take a closer look... the best schools in the world... see they all have something very interesting in common. they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. let's develop more stars in education. devastating to our military. then i would say, you have a president who ran for president four years ago, promising hope and change, who has now turned this campaign into attack, blame, and defame. you see, if you don't have a good record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone to run from. that's what president obama said in 2008. it's what he's doing right now. look at the string of broken promises. if you like your health care plan, you can keep it. let's invest in our teachers... they can inspire our students. let's solve this. well, if itmr. margin?margin. don't be modest, bob. you found a better way to pack a bowling ball. that was ups. and who called ups? you did, bob. i just asked a question. it takes a long time to pack a bowling ball. the last guy pitched more ball packers. but you... you consulted ups. you found a better way. that's logistics. that's margin. find out what else ups knows. i'll do that. try telling that to the 20 million people who are projected to lose their health insurance if obama care goes through. or the 7.4 million seniors who are going to lose it. remember what he said this, if you make less than 250,000, your taxes won't go up. of the 21 tax increases, 12 of them hit the middle class. remember when he said, health insurance premiums will go down $2500 per family for year, they are expected to go up another
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you're on a roll. that's funny. i wasn't being funny, bob. i know. $2400. remember when he promised by the end of his first term, i'll cut the deficit in half. we've had four budgets. four, trillion dollar deficits. a debt crisis is coming. we can't keep spending money we don't have. leaders run to problems to fix problems. president obama has not even put a credible plan on the table in any of his four years to deal with this debt crisis. i passed two things to tackle this. mitt romney has put ideas on the table. we have to tackle this before it tackles us. we asked the president's budget office, can we see the plan, and the press secretary gave us a copy of the speech. and we asked the congressional buthsd office, tell us what president obama's plan is to prevent a debt crisis. they said it's a speech. we can't estimate speeches. that's what we get in this administration. speeches, but we're not getting leadership. mitt romney is uniquely qualified to fix these problems.
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lifetime of experience, proven track record of bipartisanship. what do we have from the president? he broke his big promise to bring people together to solve the country's biggest problem. i would tell him we don't have to settle for this, we can do better thank this. >> i hope i'll get equal time. >> you will get just a few minutes here, a few seconds really. >> the two budgets that congress has introduced, has eviscerated all the things that the middle >> let's talk about medicare and entitlements. both medicare and social security are going broke and taking a larger share of the budget in the process. will benefits for americans under these programs have to class cares about. you will knock 19 million people off medicare. it will kick 200,000 children off early education and eliminate the tax credit people have to be able to send their children to college. it cuts education by $450 billion. it does virtually nothing except to increase the tax cuts for the very wealthy. we've had enough of this. the idea that he's so concerned about the deficit, i pointed
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change for the programs to survive, mr. ryan? >> absolutely. medicare and social security are going bankrupt. these are indisputable facts. when i look at these programs, we've all had tragedies in our lives. i think about what they've done for my own family. my mom and i had my grandmother move in with us facing alzheimer's. medicare was there for her. just like it's there for my mom right now who is a for the record senior. after my dad died, my mom and i got social security and paid for college benefits. out, he voted to put two wars on the credit card. >> we will have closing statements. >> just a second. >> not raising taxes cutting -- is not cutting taxes. this is not -- >> let me calm down things here just for a minute, and i want to talk to you very briefly before we go to closing statements about your own personal character. if you were elected what could you both give to this country as helped her go back to college in her 50s. where she started a small business because of the education that she got. she paid all of her taxes on the promise that these programs would be there for her. we will honor these promises. you see, if you reform these programs for my generation, people 54 and below, you can guarantee they don't change for people in or near retirement, which is what mitt romney and i proposing. look what obama care does. it takes $716 billion from a man, as a human being, that no one else could? >> honesty. no one else could. there are plenty of fine people that could lead this country. what you need are people who when they say they are going to do something is they go do it. when people see solutions, they offer a solution. we're not getting that. look, we can grow this economy faster. that's what our five-point plan
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medicare to spend on obama care. even their own chief of medicare backs this up. he says, you can't spend the same dollar twice. you can't claim this money goes to medicare and obama care. then they put this obama care board in charge of cutting medicare each year that will lead to denied care for current seniors. this board, it's 15 people, the president is supposed to appoint them next year and not one of them has to have medical is all about. our plan is getting people out of poverty to the middle class. that means going with pro growth policies that we know get people back to work. putting ideas on the table. working with democrats. that actually works sometimes. >> vice president, could we get to that issue, what you would bring as a man, human being? i will keep you to about 15 seconds. >> he gets 40, i get 15? >> he didn't have 40. >> that's okay. >> my record stands for itself. training. social security, if we don't shore up social security, when we run out of the ious, when the program goes bankrupt, a 25% across the board benefit cut kicks in on seniors in the middle of their retirement. we're going to stop that from happening. they haven't put a credible solution on the table. he'll tell you about vouchers and say all these things to scare people. here's what we're saying. give younger people, when they become medicare eligible, guaranteed coverage options that you can't be denied, including traditional medicare. i never say anything i don't mean. everybody knows whatever i say i do and my whole life has been devoted to leveling the playing field for middle-class people, giving them an even break. treating main street and wall street the same, both with the same responsibility. look at my record, all about the middle class. they are the people that grow this country. we think you grow this country from the middle out, not from the top down. so, what do you think? [ engine revs ]
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choose your plan and then medicare subsidizes your premiums. not as much for the wealthy people. more coverage for the middle income people. and total out of pocket coverage for the poor and sick. choice and competition. we would rather have 50 million future seniors determine how their medicare is delivered to them, instead of 15 bureaucrats deciding what, when, if and where they get it. >> i heard that death panel argument from sarah palin. it seems every vice presidential debate i hear this stuff about panels. let's talk about medicare. i'll take it. [ male announcer ] it's chevy truck month. now during chevy truck month, get 0% apr financing for 60 months or trade up to get the 2012 chevy silverado all-star edition with a total value of $8,000. hurry in before they're all gone! what we did is we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to medicare. we cut the cost of medicare. we stopped overpaying insurance companies. when doctors and hospitals. the ama supported what we did. aarp endorsed what we did. and it extends the life of medicare to 2024. they want to wipe this all out. it also gave more benefits. any senior out there, ask yourself, do you have more benefits today? you do. if you're near the doughnut everyone in the nicu, all the nurses wanted to watch him
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hole, you have $600 more to help your prescription drug cost. you get wellness visits without co-pays. they wiped this out and medicare becomes insolvent in 2016. number one. number two, guaranteed benefit. it's a voucher. when they first proposed -- when the congressman had his first voucher program, the cbo said it would cost $6400 a year, martha, more for every senior 55 and below when they got there. when he was there 118 days. everything that you thought was important to you changes in light of having a child that needs you every moment. he knew that. yet he got all the guys in congress to vote for it. governor romney, knowing that, said i would sign it were i there. who do you believe? the ama, me, a guy who has fought his whole life for this or somebody who put in motion a plan that knowingly cuts -- added $6,400 a year more to the cost of medicare. now they've got a new plan. trust me, it's not going to cost i wouldn't trade him for the world. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. if you're caring for a child with special needs, our innovative special care program offers strategies that can help.
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you any more. folks, follow your instincts on this one. and with regard to social security, we will not -- we will not privatize it. if we had listened to romney, governor romney and the congressman during the bush years, imagine where all those seniors would be now if their money had been in the market. their ideas are old and bad and they eliminate the guarantee of medicare. >> here's the problem. they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, turning medicare into a piggy bank for obama care. their own actuary from the administration came to congress and said 1 out of 6 hospitals and nursing homes are going to go out of business as a result of this. 7.4 million seniors are projected to lose the coverage they have, that's the $3,200 benefit cut. >> that doesn't happen. >> these are from your own actuaries. >> more people signed up for medicare advantage after the change. nobody is -- >> mr. vice president, i know -- mr. vice president i know you're
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under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but people would be better served if we don't keep interrupting each other. >> don't take all the four minutes again. >> we're saying don't change benefits for people 55 and above. they already organize their retirement around -- >> let me ask you this, what is your specific plan for seniors who really can't afford to make up the difference in the value of what you call a premium support plan and others call a voucher? >> 100% coverage. >> now to closing statements. thank you, gentlemen. and the coin toss has vice president biden starting. >> let me say at the outset, thank you, martha, for doing this and centre college. the fact is, we're in a situation where we inherited a god awful circumstance. people are in real trouble. we acted to move to relieve people who need the most help that's what we're saying. we're saying -- >> how do you make that up? >> taking down subsidies for wealthy people. look, this is a plan -- by that way, that $6,400 number was misleading. it's totally inaccurate now. this is a bipartisan plan. i put it together with a prominent democratic senator in -- >> there's not one democrat who endorses it. >> our partner is a democrat from oregon. >> and he says he no longer supports it. >> we put it together with the former clinton -- now. and in the process, in case you haven't noticed, we have strong disagreements. you probably detected my frustration with their attitude about the american people. my friends that 30% of the american people are takers. romney points out 47% of the people won't take responsibility. talk about my mother and father, talking about the places i grew
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>> who disavows it. >> this idea came from the clinton commission to save medicare, chaired by senator john bro. here's the point, martha. if we don't fix this problem soon, then current seniors get cut. here's the problem. 10,000 people are retiring every day in america today and they will for 20 years. that's not a political thing, that's a math thing. >> if we just -- if they just allow medicare to bargain for the cost of drugs like medicaid can, that would save $156 up in, neighbors in claymont and francis. he's talking about people who built this country. all they are looking for is an even shot. whenever you give them a shot. they've done it. they've done it. whenever you level the playing field, they've been able to move. they want a little bit of peace of mind. the president and i won't rest until the playing field is leveled. they, in fact, have a clear shot and peace of mind. until they can turn to their kid and say with a degree of confidence, honey, it's billion right off the bat. >> and it would deny seniors choices. >> seniors are not denied. >> absolutely. >> they are not denied. look, folks, all you seniors out there, have you been denied choices? have you lost medicare advantage? >> vice president biden, if it could help solve the problem, why not slowly raise the medicare eligibility age by two years? going to be okay. it's going to be okay. that's what this is all about. >> congressman ryan. >> i want to thank you as well, martha, danville, kentucky, and centre college. i want to thank you, joe. it's been an honor to engage in this critical debate. we face a big choice. what kind of country are we going to be? what kind of country will we give our kids? president obama had his chance, made his choices.
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as congressman ryan suggests? >> look, i was there when we did that with social security in 1983. i was one of eight people sitting in a room that included tip o'neill negotiating with president reagan. we all got together and everybody said, as long as everybody is in the deal, everybody is in the deal, and everybody is making some sacrifice, we can find a way. we made the system solvent to 2033. we will not, though, be part of any voucher plan eliminating -- the voucher says, mom, when his economic agenda, more spending, more borrowing, higher taxes, a government takeover of health care, it's not working. it's failed to create the jobs we need. 23 million americans are struggling for work today. 15% of americans in poverty. this is not what a real recovery looks like. you deserve better. mitt romney and i want to earn your support. we're offering real reforms for real recovery for every american. you're 65, go out there, shop for the best insurance you can get. you're out of medicare, you can buy back in with this voucher, which will not keep pace with health care costs. because if it did keep pace, there would be no savings. that's why they go the voucher. we will be no part of a voucher program or the privatization of social security. >> a voucher is you go to your mailbox, get a check and buy something. nobody is proposing that. mitt romney is experienced, his ideas, his solutions, he's uniquely qualified to get this job done. at a time when we have a jobs crisis in america, wouldn't it be nice have a job creator in the white house? the choice is clear. a stagnant economy that promotes more government dependency or a dynamic growing economy that promotes opportunity and jobs.
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barack obama four years ago running for president, said, if you don't have any fresh ideas, use stale tactics to scare voters. if you don't have a good record to run on, paint your opponent as someone to run from. >> you were one of the few to stand with president bush when he was seeking to partially privatize social security. >> for younger people. what we said then and i've always agreed, let younger mitt romney and i will not duck the tough issues and we will not blame others for the next four years. we will take responsibility, and we will not try to replace our founding principles. we will reapply our founding principles. the choice is clear and the choice rests with you, and we ask you for your vote. thank you. >> and thank you both again. thank you very much. this concludes the vice presidential debate. please tune in next tuesday for americans have a voluntary choice of making their money work faster for them within the social security system. that's not what mitt romney is proposing. we're saying no changes for anybody 55 and over. and then the kinds of changes we're talking about for younger people like myself is don't increase the benefits for people -- wealthy people as fast as everybody else. slowly raise the retirement age over time. it wouldn't get to 70 until the year 2103. >> quickly, mr. vice president. the second presidential debate at hofstra university in new york. i'm rtha raddatz of abc news. i do hope all of you go to the polls. have a good evening. a new-roof discount? [ thudding ] oh, boy. yep. and it's an agent's job to help people find new ways to save. there's some cool stuff up here. there sure is. [ man ] look what i found. it's a fiddler on the roof. ♪ [ up-tempo country ] what are the chances?
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>> quickly, the bottom line is that all the studies show if we went with social security proposals made by mitt romney, if you're in your 40s now, you'll pay $2,600 a year -- you get $2,600 a year less in social security. if you're in your 20s, you get $4,700 a year less. the idea of changing and change being in this case to cut the benefits for people without taking other action you could do to make it work is absolutely the wrong way. look, these guys haven't been big on medicare from the beginning. [ announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ there's the sign to the bullpen. here he comes. you wouldn't want your doctor doing your job, the pitch! whoa! so why are you doing his? only your doctor can determine if your persistent heartburn is actually something more serious like acid reflux disease. over time, stomach acid can damage the lining of your esophagus. for many, prescription nexium not only provides 24-hour heartburn relief, but can also help heal acid-related erosions in their party's not been big on medicare from the beginning. and they've always been about social security, as little as you can do. look, folks, use your common sense. who do you trust on this? a man who introduced a bill that would raise it $6,400 a year, knowing it and passing it and romney saying you sign it or me and the president? >> that was completely misleading. >> those are the facts. >> this is what politicians do when they don't have a record to the lining of your esophagus. talk to your doctor about the risk for osteoporosis-related bone fractures and low magnesium levels with long-term use of nexium. possible side effects include headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. let your doctor do his job. and you do yours. ask if nexium is right for you. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.
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run on. try to scare people from voting for you. if you don't get ahead of this problem, it's going to -- >> medicare beneficiaries -- >> we're going to move on. i have a simple question -- >> medicare and social security did so much for my own family. we're not going to jeopardize the program. but we have to save it. >> you are jeopardizing the program. you're changing the program from a guaranteed benefit to a premium support -- whatever you call it. the bottom line is people are going to have to pay more money out of their pocket and the families i know, they don't have the money to pay more. >> that's why we're saying more for higher income people and less for low income people. >> gentlemen, i would like to move on to a simple question and something tells me i won't get a simple answer. >> i gave you a simple answer. he's raising the cost of medicare. how can something get bigger.. and smaller? there's more of it.. and less of it?
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well, i guess the laws of physics are more like.. general guidelines. and every day since, two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. we've worked hard to keep it. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help people and businesses who were affected, and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open for everyone to enjoy --
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on to taxes. if your ticket is elected, who will pay more and who will pay less in taxes, vice president? >> the mide class will pay less and people making a million dollars will pay slightly more. let me give you one concrete example. the continuation of the bush tax cuts, we're arguing the tax cuts for the wealthy should be allowed to expire. of the bush tax cuts for the wealthy, 800 million -- billion dollars of that goes to people making a minimum of a million dollars. we see no justification in these economic times for those and they're patriotic americans, they're not asking for this
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continued tax cut. they're not suggestg it, but my friends are insisting on it. 120,000 families, by continuing that tax cut, will get an additional $500 billion in tax relief in the next ten years. and their income is an average of $8 million. we want to extend permanently the middle class tax cut permanently, from the bush middle class tax cut. these guys won't allow us to. su know what they're saying? we say let's have a vote on the middle class tax cut and have a vote on the upper tax cut. let's vote on it. they're saying no. they're holding hostage the middle class tax cut to the super wealthy. on top of that, they've got another tax cut coming that's $5 trillion that all of the studies point out will give another $250 million -- yeah, $250,000 a year to those 120,000 families, and raise taxes for people who are middle income with a child by $2,000 a year.
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this is unconscionable. there is no need for this. the middle class got knocked on their heels. the great recession crushed them. thy need some help now. the last people who need help are 120,000 families for under -- another $500 billion tax cut over the next ten years. >> congressman? >> our entire premise of these tax reform plans is to grow the economy and create jobs. it's estimated to create 7 million jobs. we think that government taking 28% of a family and business's income is enough. president obama thinks that the government ought to be able to take as much as 44.8% of a small business's income. look, if you taxed every person in a successful small business making over $250,000 at 100%, it would only run the government for 98 days. if everybody who paid taxes last
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year, including successful small businesses, doubled their income taxes this year, we would still have a $300 billion deficit. you see, there aren't enough rich people and small businesses to tax to pay for all their spending. and so the next time you hear them say, don't worry about it, we'll get a few wealthy people to pay their fair share, watch out, middle class, the tax bill is coming to you. that's why we're saying we need fundamental tax reform. let's look at it this way. 8 out of 10 businesses, they file their taxes as individuals, not corporations. where i come from overseas, which is lake superior, the canadians, they drop their tax rates to 15%. the average tax rate on businesses in the industrialized world is 25% and the president wants the effective top tax rate on successful small businesses to go above 40%. 2/3 of our jobs come from small businesses. this one tax would actually tax about 53% of small business income.
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it's expected to cost us 710,000 jobs. and it doesn't even pay for 10% of the proposed deficit spending increases. we're saying close loopholes lower tax rates across the bo d board, close loopholes primely to the hire income people. we have three bottom lines. don't raise the deficit. don't raise taxes on the middle class. and don't lower the share of income born by the high income earners. he'll keep saying this $5 trillion plan. it's been discredited by six other studies and their own deputy campaign manager acknowledged it wasn't correct. >> let's talk about this 20%. you have refused to offer specifics on how you pay for that 20% across the board tax cut. do you actually have the specifics or are you still working on it and that's why you won't tell voters? >> different than this administration, we want to have big bipartisan agreements. see, i understand -- >> do you have the specifics, do you have the -- >> that would be the first in a republican congress.
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>> look at what ronald reagan and tip o'neill did. they worked together to broaden the base and lower tax rates. and they worked together to fix that. what we're saying is, here's our framework, lower taxerates about 20%. we forego about 1.1 trillion in loopholes and deductions. whoa we're saying is deny those loopholes and deductions to higher income taxpayers to more of their income is taxed. so we can lower tax rates across the board. here's why i'm saying this. >> i hope i'm going to get time to respond to this one. >> you'll get time. >> we want to work with congress on how to achieve this. >> no specifics? >> lower tax rates 20%. start with the wealthy. work with congress to do it. >> you guarantee this math will add up? >> six studies have guaranteed. six study have verified this
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math adds up. >> let me have a chance to translate. i was there when ronald reagan gave specifics on what he would cut. number two, 97% of small businesses in america make less than $250,000. let me tell you who some of the small businesses are. hedge funds that make 6, 800 million dollars a year. governor romney, about ten days ago, was asked, governor, you pay 14% on $20 million. someone making $50,000 paid more than that. do you think that's fair? >> he said, oh, yes, that's fair. that's fair. you think these guys are going to go out there and cut those loopholes? the biggest loophole is the carried interest and capital gains loophole. they exempt that.
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the reason why the aei study, the tax policy center study, the reason they all say taxes are going up on the middle class, the only way you can find $5 trillion in loopholes is cut the mortgage deduction for middle class people. cut the health care people for middle class people. take away their ability to get a tax break to send their kids to college. that's why they arrive -- >> is he wrong about that? >> he is wrong about that. >> how's that? >> you can cut tax rates by 20% and preserve -- >> not mathematically possible. >> it is mathematically possible. it's been done before. >> it's never been done before. >> it's been done a couple of times. >> now you're jack kennedy. this is amazing. >> republicans and democrats have worked together on this. i understand you guys aren't used to doing bipartisan deals. >> we told you what we're going to do.
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this is what we said what we're going to cut. >> that's how you get things done, you work with congress. let me say it this way. >> republican congress working bipartisanly. 7% rating. come on. >> mitt romney was governor of massachusetts where 87% of the ladies and gentlemen slators he served with were democrats. he didn't demonize them dema gog them. he met with them every week, he reached across the aisle, didn't compromise principles, found common ground and balanced the budget. [ all speak at once ] >> why is he even contesting massachusetts? >> what would you suggest beyond raising taxes on the wealthy that would substantially reduce -- >> just let taxes expire like they're supposed to on those millionaires. we can't afford $800 billion going to people making a minimum of a million dollars. they do not need it, martha. those 120,000 families make $8
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million a year. middle-class people need the help. why does my friend cut out the tuition tax credit for them? >> can you declare anything off limits? >> yeah, we're saying close loopholes on high interest deductions. for higher income people. >> can you guarantee that no one making less than $100,000 will have a mortgage deduction impacted? >> this taxes a million small businesses. he keeps trying to make you think it's a movie star, hedge fund guy -- >> 97% of the small businesses make less than $250,000 a year, would not be affected -- >> this taxes a million people, a million small businesses. >> does it tax everyone in% of america? >> a million small businesses who are the greatest job creators. >> and you're going to increase the defense budget? >> we're not going to cut the defense budget. >> $2 billion -- >> that's not going to happen.
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>> so no massive defense increase? >> you want to get into defense now? >> yes, i do. because that's another math question. how do you do that? >> so, they proposed a $478 billion cut to defense to begin with. now we have another $500 billion cut to defense that's lurking on the horizon. they insisted upon that cut being involved in the debt negotiations. so now we have -- >> let's put the automatic defense cuts aside. no one wants that. but i want to know how you do the math and have this increase in defense. >> you don't cut defense by a trillion. that's what we're talking about. >> what national security issue is justify an increase? >> we'll cut 80,000 soldiers, 20,000 marines, 120 cargo planes, we'll put the joint -- >> drawing down. and one more and one more. >> if these cuts go through, the navy will be the smallest it has
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been since before world war i. this invites weakness. do we believe in strength? you bet we do. you don't impose these devastating cuts on our military. we're saying, don't cut the military by a trillion dollars. don't cut it by a trillion dollars. >> quickly, vice president biden. >> we don't want to use the word sequester, automatic cut. that was part of a debt deal they asked for. let me tell you what my friend said at a press conference. announcing his support of the deal. he said we've been looking for this moment for a long time. >> can i tell you what that meant? we have been looking for bipartisanship for a long time. >> bipartisanship is what he voted for the automatic cuts in defense if they didn't act. and beyond that, they asked for another -- look, the military says we need a smaller, leaner army. we need more special forces. we don't need more tanks. what we need is more -- >> some of the military. >> not some of the military, that was the decision of the
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joint chiefs of staff. recommended to us and agreed to by the president. they made the recommendation first.
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Vice Presidential Debate
CNN October 11, 2012 9:00pm-11:00pm PDT

Series/Special. Martha Raddatz. (2012) The vice presidential candidates' discussion of issues takes place at Centre College in Danville, Ky., Martha Raddatz moderates; analysis follows. (Stereo)

TOPIC FREQUENCY Us 28, America 20, Romney 19, Afghanistan 11, Biden 10, Russia 8, Obama 8, U.n. 8, Syria 7, Iran 6, Benghazi 5, Martha 5, Libya 5, China 5, Obama Administration 4, Iraq 4, Bashar Assad 4, U.s. 4, Bob 3, United States 3
Network CNN
Duration 02:00:00
Scanned in San Francisco, CA, USA
Source Comcast Cable
Tuner Virtual Ch. 759 (CNN HD)
Video Codec mpeg2video
Audio Cocec ac3
Pixel width 1920
Pixel height 1080
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on 10/12/2012